appear on this page:
1 Fake Relics
2 Truthfulness And Relics
3 A Treatise on Relics
4 Origen Not The Forger
(Investigator 146, 2012
From the time of the Council of Nicea in 325 AD
trickery has featured
prominently in Church practice.
In 393 AD a Dutchman living in Constantinople purchased from a priest a
leg of the donkey upon which Jesus Christ rode into Jerusalem. The
priest has also sold four other legs off the same donkey. Bishop Ferund
assured the Dutchman it was all right for God could multiply and
produce as many five-legged donkeys as he liked. This stupid Dutchman
In 395 AD Bishop Ambros displayed a 15-foot (4.6 metres) length of
timber as the "true cross" in his church and the ignorant lined up to
buy fragments cut from it.
In 629 AD Emperor Heraclius staged a public exhibition of the supposed
"true cross" at Jerusalem. He claimed to have received it from the
Persians into whose hands it had fallen by 614 AD. Heraclius spent the
rest of his life living off sales made from "sacred fragments of the
true cross". Nearly 1000 years later, religious reformer John Calvin
(1509-1564) declared that enough fragments of the "true cross" had been
sold to construct a ship.
As matter of record 62 "true crosses" were presented to the public by
the Church between 326 and 680 AD.
In the 6th century St. Gregory of Tours produced a "crown of thorns"
and an eye witness that the thorns in the crown still looked green, a
freshness which was miraculously renewed each day.
Bishop Densodona (9th century) and his band of rogues sold human
remains to churches for a great price, saying that they were those of
martyrs — but the Bishop's gang dug them up from graves.
Other Notes of Interest
Brian de Kretser
expressed spirituality in different ways — over 30,000
Christian sects exist throughout the world.
63 AD in Provence, France.
- Celsus — an
anti-Christian writer — died about 140 AD. He branded the
Christian presbyters orations about the miracles of Jesus as absurd. He
wrote a work called True Discourse which was destroyed by the
5th century Church. Over 90%, however, was reconstructed.
voted in as God by 161 votes, to 157 against, at the
Council of Nicea in 325 AD. Before that the Christian religion did not
have an official God.
- Just after
Council of Nicea two forgers, Eusebius and Origen, added
to the works of Josephus to mention and glorify Jesus Christ. These do
not appear in Josephus's original works.
(272-337 AD) died in 337. He was a murderer, drowned his
wife in boiling water, butchered his young nephew, murdered two of his
brothers-in-law, killed his son, bled to death several men and women,
and smothered an old monk. The Church later made him a saint.
Truthfulness And "Relics"
(Investigator 147, 2012
The short answer to Mr De Kretser's "Fake Relics" in
#146 is that
people who introduce fake relics do not represent Christianity.
Although such people may be members in a church they are similar to
those mentioned in I John 7: "Many deceivers have gone out into the
In #101 I wrote about "Lies A Theme of the Bible". Truth, however, is
also a Biblical theme.
The importance of truthfulness is stressed throughout the Scriptures.
who sells fake relics or uses them as evidence for
the Bible does not reflect Biblical Christianity.
- You shall
false witness… (Exodus 20:16)
endure forever, but a lying tongue lasts only a moment. (Proverbs 12:19)
- Speak the
one another… (Zechariah 8:16)
- So then,
away falsehood let all of us speak truth to our neighbors… (Ephesians
- I am
truth, I am not lying… (I Timothy 2:7)
Another complaint by De Kretser is: "Celsus…branded…orations about the
miracles of Jesus as absurd. He wrote a work called True Discourse
which was destroyed by the 5th century Church. Over 90%, however, was
Celsus was a pagan philosopher whose book True Discourse
(c.178) is the earliest literary attack on Christianity. His view on
miracles, however, is irrelevant since he did not address the empirical
evidence for miracles which I presented in #58 #59 #78 #131. It is
unknown how True Discourse got lost — most ancient works
disappeared one way or another without the Church being responsible.
Its reconstruction, however, was done by Christians and was possible
due to extensive quotes from it in Christian writings, particularly
De Kretser, and atheists generally, get sidetracked by supposed
Christians of unchristian conduct — De Kretser mentions Constantine.
This approach is no more valid than listing known criminals in
Australia to "prove" Democracy is wrong. The Bible's instruction is to
imitate good examples, not search for bad examples to use as excuses:
sisters, join in imitating me [Paul the Apostle], and observe those who
live according to the example you have in us. For many live as enemies
of the cross of Christ… Their end is destruction…their minds are set on
earthly things. (Philippians 3:18-19)
information on relics I've appended a page from the French
theologian John Calvin (1509-1564)
A Treatise on Relics
The belief that the body of the Virgin was not
interred on earth, but
was taken to heaven, has deprived them of all pretext for manufacturing
any relics of her remains, which otherwise might have been sufficiently
abundant to fill a whole churchyard; yet in order to have at least
something belonging to her, they sought to indemnify themselves for the
absence of other relics with the possession of her hair and her milk.
The hair is shown in several churches at Rome, and at Salvatierra in
Spain, at Maçon, St Flour, Cluny, Nevers, and in many other
towns. With regard to the milk, there is not perhaps a town, a convent,
or nunnery, where it is not shown in large or small quantities. Indeed,
had the Virgin been a wet-nurse her whole life, or a dairy, she could
not have produced more than is shown as hers in various parts. How they
obtained all this milk they do not say, and it is superfluous here to
remark that there is no foundation in the Gospels for these foolish and
The Virgin's wardrobe has produced an abundant store of relics. There
is a shirt of hers at Chartres, which has been fully celebrated as an
idol, and there is another at Aix-la-Chapelle [Aachen]. I do not know
how these things could have been obtained, for it is certain that the
Apostles and first Christians were not such triflers as to amuse
themselves in this way. It is, however, sufficient for us to consider
the shape of these articles of dress, in order clearly to see the
impudence of their exhibitors. The shirt at Aix-la-Chapelle is a long
clerical surplice, shown hanging to a pole, and if the Blessed Virgin
had been a giantess, she would still have felt much inconvenience in
wearing so large a garment.
In the same church they preserve the shoes of St Joseph, which could
only fit the foot of a little child or a dwarf. The proverb says that
liars need good memories, so as not to contradict their own sayings.
This rule was not followed out at Aix-la-Chapelle, otherwise care would
have been taken to maintain a better proportion of size between the
shoes of the husband and the shirt of the wife. And yet these relics,
so devoid of all appearance of truth, are devoutly kissed and venerated
I know of only two of her head-dresses; one is at the abbey of St
Maximian at Treves, and the other is at Lisio in Italy. They may be
considered quite as genuine as the Virgin's girdle at Prato and at
Montserrat, as her slipper at St Jaqueme, and as her shoe at St Flour.
Now, those who are at all conversant with this subject well know that
it was not the custom of the primitive church to collect shoes and
stockings, etc., for relics, and also that for five hundred years after
the death of the Virgin Mary there was never any talk of such things.
It really seems as if these well-known facts would be sufficient to
prove the absurdity of all these relics of the Virgin…
Valerian Krasinski (Translator) 1870 A Treatise on Relics by John
Calvin, Second Edition, p. 58)
ORIGEN NOT THE FORGER
(Investigator 147, 2012
The September (2012) issue has Brian de Kretser
saying that Origen and
Eusebius did some forging of Josephus' writings after the Council of
Nicea. For Origen this would have been difficult because he died in 254
AD i.e. over 70 years before 'Nicea' which took place in 325 AD.
Eusebius (260-340 AD), however, attended the Council of Nicea and is
also is known as the "Father of Church History".